posted 02-25-2008 08:56 AM            

He met his goals, and his descriptions of how he did it, his observations about the lives and opportunities of the homeless and the low-waged and his recommendations for how to increase the likelihood that many more could do what he did, make for interesting reading. As a first book by a student fresh out of college, great literature it ain't, but he has an engaging writing style and excellent descriptive powers. I'd recommend it, especially to your annoying liberal do-gooder acquaintance who insists that we are not 'doing enough' to help the homless and the low-waged.

Note that as a result of an Insta-lanche, all of the major on-line retailers are out of stock, however, you can buy the book directly at www.scratchbeginnings.com.

llater,

llamas

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. . . a truly bad and evil man. So bad and evil that he's banned by Kim du Toit.

"All things are ready, if our minds be so."
King Henry V, Act 4, scene 3

posted 02-25-2008 10:09 AM            

He's young, male, white, intelligent or at least educated, presumably unaddicted, presumably physically healthy (looks healthy), sane, motivated and in the U.S.

It seems he has many advantages over other homeless people. Possibly all other homeless people.

posted 02-25-2008 11:32 AM            

Part of this response is (no offense) the 'soft bigotry of low expectations'.

I'll give you young, male and in the US. Young men can do hard physical work better than old women, and hard, physical, grunt work is often the entry point into the labour market for young men with no other qualifications.

As it was for this author, who parlayed day-labouring jobs on building sites into a job driving truck & moving furniture. His race and his education mattered not-at-all, and in fact, one of the mentors he describes in his book makes it on very-much-the-same path as he does - but with the added disadvantages of being black, having only a high-school education, a wife and kids and a stretch of hard time on his record.

So I don't buy the 'Oh, he's white and male and well-educated . . ' dismissal - it's too easy and it doesn't acknowledge the suprising realities of the lifestyle that he chose to dive into.

llater,

llamas

------------------
. . . a truly bad and evil man. So bad and evil that he's banned by Kim du Toit.

"All things are ready, if our minds be so."
King Henry V, Act 4, scene 3

posted 02-25-2008 12:01 PM            

quote:

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the suprising realities of the lifestyle that he chose to dive into.

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I still can't help but think that his view was potentially skewed but the assurance of a family/social safety net somewhere if he dived too deep.

posted 02-25-2008 03:28 PM            

These are basic tactics that are often missing, especially in the 'entitlement' culture. No cooking skills or knowledge of diet and budgeting = eating out, eating a diet deficient in basic nutrients, feeling lousy, contracting diabetes, high blood pressure. No knowledge about replacing a screen = crumby, crumbling projects. Never learn to put trash in the trash can = well, cause a trashy neighborhood. In school black kids are abjured not to Act White and blame every set back on The Man. White kids are abjured not to act like nerds. There's a whole subset of society that simply doesn't have basic sense or the bare minimum of education.

I started out as a typist in a mortgage banking firm and made it to Copy Chief at an ad agency by age 25. Avid readers have an edge on people who don't read for pleasure -- at any point on the education scale.

If mom and dad are virtually illiterate, they're sure not reading to their kids before bed. People who can be comfortable being quiet have an edge when it comes to concentration.

The point was made about addicts and the mentally ill. Having experienced the inability to work -- even menial work -- several times, I can relate to that and think it's criminal to close state sponsored mental facilities.

As for addicts -- well, there I just don't see a solution. An addict is addicted and when you're addicted you CAN'T stop. Intervention isn't wildly successful but it does work in some cases. Thus worth the attempt.

Yet, although this young man started out with some advantages, remember that most college grads can't do menial work. There's a joke about a grocery store hiring a PhD and teaching him how to sweep the floors.

I admire the author's concept and his effort and am sure this book will provide a good and informative read.

Sheesh, you guys are going to cost us a fortune in books.

posted 02-25-2008 07:09 PM            

I admire your mother. All of our kids could do their own laundry at an early age, except for meticulous AF baby who laundered her clothes every night, insisting upon wearing the same pair of shorts/shirt everyday.

I've always enjoyed cooking and took pleasure in preparing a week's worth of meals on a Sunday afternoon. I made breakfast each school morning and sent lunches along w/ kids. That's how I grew up, so I simply repeated what I knew.

Of the 4 kids, one is a pro chef, both daughters are either extraordinary or steady Eddie cookers and our younger son could probably cobble together a fine meal. We've been on vacations w/ all of them, and ate wonderful meals w/ each one.

Teaching children to be self-sufficient when you are not so yourself is utterly impossible. In fact, our kids have taught me how to do many things. Don't laugh. I really didn't know how to successfully sweep a floor or use a microwave or chop an onion or manipulate photos on PC (actually, I still don't know how -- work in progress).

Then there's the emphasis on academics. I learned to sew and knit and cook basic dishes in jr. high Home Ec and how to use basic power and hand tools in Woodworking/shop (only girl there, but then I was usually the only girl there in many pick up sports activities).

I've never taken a mechanical class/welding/electrical/plumbing, but I can do amazing things with softer materials (wood and cloth)

In addition to school, we learn most of our life skills through example. My mother taught me how to swim, my uncle taught me how to fish and hunt, my aunt taught me how to make pumpkin pie (use condensed, not evaporated milk). HWMBB, who was a Latin American scholar and lived in Mexico, taught me how to make re-fried beans (a staple in Texas).

I seek knowledge. That's why I'm here. Those who desire to maintain the status quo of relative ignorance do so.

I didn't break it, I can't fix it. A baked potato and salad makes a fine dinner -- without a sirloin. And costs abt $1/person. Less fortunate folx are given complex food pyramids. Just give 'em the basics and weekly meal plan. Bureaucracy has a lot to feel bad about. They should.

posted 02-26-2008 05:46 AM            

This may vary from place to place and from time to time, but -

He stayed 70 days at a homeless shelter, and by his account, he never, ever went hungry. Quite the opposite - the shelter was generally awash in food, often donated, often prepared by volunteers, always high-quality. He describes eating donated shrimp and steak, and of going back for more so many times he had to waddle to his cot. Oliver, he wasn't.

The second suprising thing concerned work. There was work available for anyone at the shelter who wanted it, every single day. The day-labour agencies sent vans to the shelter to collect anyone and everyone who wanted to work that day. Rough work, hard work, unsatisfying work, low-paid work, to be sure - but work. And - as he describes, if a man has literally no living costs, and he can make $30-$40 a day, every day of the week, it doesn't take very long to build quite a sizeable road-stake.

The most interesting thing concerend the concept of time, and how it can change for people in this situation. Interetsing insights.

Now go buy yer own copy!

llater,

llamas

------------------
. . . a truly bad and evil man. So bad and evil that he's banned by Kim du Toit.

"All things are ready, if our minds be so."
King Henry V, Act 4, scene 3

posted 02-26-2008 12:22 PM            

All the able-bodied poor people I know make poor decisions.

I haven't read the book, but concerning the criticism that he was college-educated, it doesn't sound like the work he got from the day-labor places required a degree in engineering. It sounds to me like the kind of work any able-bodied person can do. It doesn't sound fun.

Was he paid in cash? Have to fill out a W-4?

posted 02-26-2008 02:10 PM            

John LeB, there are few large grocery stores in the poor parts of town. HWMBB and I were cruising home from lunch and drove thru an area where our oldest son had purchased a home (sold it, now in condo). There's a dearth of markets and gas stations and a wealth of convenience and fast food vendors. That'll change as the east side becomes increasingly gentrified. It's an excellent example of supply and demand.

Sam McK, there's a stigma attached to doing manual labor -- especially grunt work and especially among the 'entitled' community. If you can't immediately get an executive desk job w/ your GED, then you simply suck up gummint largesse... aka "putting it to The Man."

We have day worker centers in Austin. They are manned by Hispanics -- who also stand outside large home improvement centers hoping for work. It's very common here to pick up casual labor, pay them in cash. Of course, many are illegal aliens and pay no taxes. They live cheek and jowl in small apts and send as much money home as possible. Mexico is, er, um not a particularly vibrant economy -- unless you're a drug lord. Workers often ride bicycles or more frequently walk long distances to the day labor sites. I admire them a great deal. The peanuts they work for are a boon to their families.

Got to thinking abt being poor food. Chicken and dumplings, stews, pot roasts, spaghetti sauce w/ meat and veggies, meatloaf (w/ hidden veggies for kids). Bean burritos w/ cheese and veg, mashed potatoes and potato salad. Fajitas (skirt steak) used to be fabulously inexpensive until the yuptoids discovered them -- then the were priced at what the market could bear. Macaroni and cheese and lasagna and moussaka (for grown ups usually), homemade pizza, goulash (w/ burger), beef stroganov (again w/ burger). (Type stroganov into your spell check -- mine gave me suggestion of 'estrogen.' ?????) Hot dogs w/ cole slaw, pancakes topped w/ fresh fruit and sausage for dinner, omelettes, frozen fish "fingers" w/ frozen mixed veggies. Any sort of pot pie, bean chalupas topped w/ mounds of lettuce, tomatoes and cheese. The list goes on and we still enjoy these family faves today -- albeit I've changed my mac 'n cheese into a blue cheese version.

posted 02-26-2008 02:34 PM            

quote:

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If you can't immediately get an executive desk job w/ your GED, then you simply suck up gummint largesse... aka "putting it to The Man."

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I've observed that such people don't actually do any work even when they do get desk jobs.

posted 02-26-2008 03:57 PM            

One interesting phenomenon I noticed in the poorer neighbourhoods is that many complain about how there are "no jobs here". What they really mean is that there are no $20/hr jobs within two blocks of where they live. One thing I noticed is that the people in the poorest neighbourhoods who are willing to spend an hour getting to work in the morning tend not to stay in the poor neighbourhoods for long. In a city like Toronto where everybody lives withing walking distance of 24/7 public transit service there's really no excuse for not extending a job search beyond the boudaries of the 'hood.

Interesting spell check results on stroganov BTW- IIRC here we spell it "stroganof" so maybe you stumbled across a name for an obscure hormone?

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"Deer aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is what am I going to eat next, who am I going to f*** and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the French."
- Ted Nugent

posted 02-26-2008 05:31 PM            

[b]JohnLeB[b], Austin probably has the lousiest 'public' xpo system in the country. I can walk to two large grocery stores, but neither walk is pleasant and one involves crossing frontage roads and beneath I-35. Um, that's kinda a lot of traffic. East of us, covering thousands of acres there are two chain groceries and a plethora of fast food and convenience shops. I need to cross the damned interstate or drive abt 2 miles north to get convenience food. Exception, I can walk to a Subway from my house -- that walk is abt 3/4 pleasant. I'll be interested to see what happens south and east of us in an historic black neighborhood (jazz fans, see Victory Grill) that is being enshrined and filled in w/ uber deluxe retail and residential structures. There are still some funky eateries over there -- Nubian Queen, Gene's Po'boys -- but my guess is that they'll be gentrified out if only 'cause they can't afford ramping property taxes. Could someone please point out to our tax/spend reps that taxes HURT the economically disadvantaged?

posted 02-26-2008 06:07 PM            

quote:

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Her dream job paid big buck$, required her to do nothing and be able to make personal phone calls during the 'work' day.

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I can't imagine being happy at a "job" like that. In fact, I don't think the people I've known who have such jobs are happy.

I was once asked during a job interview what my dream job was.

I said it would be to stay home and play with my dogs and get paid a million dollars a year to do it.

Oddly enough, he made me an offer on the spot (but not to do that).

posted 02-26-2008 06:45 PM            

I forget who said, in effect, if you find work you love, you'll never work again.

I like to have surprises and challenges tossed in my lap. I love to figure out how to do things, sleep on it and change my mind. I've spent my entire professional life having 'shower moments' -- those instants when you scratch your head (shampoo'ing of course) and say to yourself, "why didn't I think of that process earlier?!" In a nutshell, I like 'ah hah's!' and you don't get 'em if yer doin' nuttin'

posted 02-27-2008 12:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by annef:
KGB, consider contacting your local community college.
Anne

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I have. They put me on a waiting list.

posted 02-27-2008 08:33 AM            

One of the phenomena he talks about is the able-bodied adult male who has no job and is not looking for one. Sax rightly points out that there is such a thing as the stay-at-home Dad who takes over the household duties while his wife works, but unfortunately there are large numbers of unemployed adult males whom this does not describe. There are plenty who could find work but simply aren't doing anything.

Sax blames a number of factors--endocrine disruptors, video games and so on--for this trend but fails to mention cultural changes. In the chapter about "failure to launch" he has a color-coded map showing what percentage of working-age adult males have no job. Here his failure to mention cultural changes is especially conspicuous: The map looks an awful lot like one of those "red state-blue state" maps we saw in the 2000 election. In the more liberal areas of the country people who could get jobs don't. I found it somewhat odd that the book goes on and on about the supposed evils of video games and plastic soda bottles while utterly failing to discuss the fact that a large part of our culture is now given over to to a political philosophy based on the idea that The World Owes You Something.

posted 02-27-2008 10:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by annef:
...You'd be teaching self selected motivated students who are looking to really understand stuff in order to move ahead with their lives. ...

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I get called in every once and a while to teach various environmental courses at the local community college (which allows me to call myself an "adjunct professor" if I want, which sounds suspisciously like a regular professor who's been sent to the scrapyard). I agree that the students are surprisingly well motivated; often more so than the ones at the regular colleges I've been to - University of Chicago and Cornell. Most of them are older and know what they're doing and what they want.

posted 02-27-2008 11:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by setnahkt:
(which allows me to call myself an "adjunct professor" if I want, which sounds suspisciously like a regular professor who's been sent to the scrapyard)

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Or like you should be mixed with pyrethrins before being administered to the vegetables.

quote:

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I recall reading once that Boulder has the highest percentage of PhD waiters and pizza delivery people in the country.

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posted 02-27-2008 11:35 AM            

quote:

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I haven't read the book, but concerning the criticism that he was college-educated, it doesn't sound like the work he got from the day-labor places required a degree in engineering. It sounds to me like the kind of work any able-bodied person can do. It doesn't sound fun.

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Yes, any able-bodied person can work at day-laboring, however it is by definition hard physical work and yes in fact one does not need a degree in engineering to do hard physical work.

However someone who has no qualifications beyond being physically healthy will only have hard physical work to look forward to.

A person with a college education knows that they can stop being a hard physical work tourist at any time in the future. Alternately a person with a college education has the outlook/education and communication skills to potentially better themselves within the constraints of the chosen work environment. This will mean the college educated hard physical work tourist will have a better outlook and therefore a more positive emotional basis from which to build themselves up.

The mere fact that they are college educated suggests that they had a better outlook and emotional basis to begin with.

Any person with a college education can pretend that they don't have a college education and spend time "living with the natives". It is a rare person without a college education that can make the move the other way. This is why self made people sell books.

posted 02-27-2008 11:38 AM            

quote:

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Then again, the Ph.D.s here are overwhelmingly in engineering and the hard sciences rather than environmental studies

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posted 02-27-2008 01:55 PM            

(The icons selected for the two books you identified, not you)

Both of these "studies" seem to be flogging a straw man while saying "look at me".

On one hand you have someone saying: "I am an ignorant pig and I cannot rise above the level of an ignorant pig".

On the other hand you have someone saying: "I am not an ignorant pig and I can rise above the level of an ignorant pig".

Why would either be considered more objective than "Super Size Me" and its ilk?

posted 02-27-2008 02:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff Norman:
[b]tralfaz,

(The icons selected for the two books you identified, not you)

Both of these "studies" seem to be flogging a straw man while saying "look at me".

On one hand you have someone saying: "I am an ignorant pig and I cannot rise above the level of an ignorant pig".

On the other hand you have someone saying: "I am not an ignorant pig and I can rise above the level of an ignorant pig".

Why would either be considered more objective than "Super Size Me" and its ilk?

Maybe I'm just grumpy.[/B]

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Your points are well-taken - which says to me, quite powerfully, that the truth lies - as it so often does - halfway inbetween.

However, I do have to say, having read both 'Nickel and Dimed' and 'Scratch Beginnings', I think I know which of the two paints a truer picture. Some of Ms Ehrenreich's 'conditions' for deigning to mix with the hoi polloi have already been mentioned - my overwhelming sense of her book was that it was one long whine about how you couldn't live a comfortable middle-class existence supported solely by your no-skills, no-experience, no-motivation job at Walmart. We needed a book to tell us this?

Shepard is quite brutally frank about what he had to do to get on his feet. Some of it ain't pretty. For sure, Ms Ehrenreich would have recoiled in horror. Therein lies the difference between them.

As to the idea that Shepard's story says nothing about the ability of people without his advantages to move up - I don't agree. He was making a good living and socking away money - more than enough to start taking college classes or other skills training to kickstart him in the job market, had he not already done that. His supervisor at the moving company worked his way up from driving truck and hauling sofas, I've no doubt he could too. It's as much about attitude as it is about education, a point that Shepard makes more than once - if you're determined-enough to move up, you will. If you decide that where you're at is just fine - that's where you'll stay.

Whether or not you have conventional advantages in life - both Shepard and Ehrenreich have college degrees, and Ehrenreich has a wealth of education and experience besides - doesn't make any difference at this level. What counts is your will to succeed. Ehrenreich didn't have it - not surprising, given that the whole premise of her politics and her book is that it is impossible to succeed. Shepard had it - and he used it.

llater,

llamas

------------------
. . . a truly bad and evil man. So bad and evil that he's banned by Kim du Toit.

"All things are ready, if our minds be so."
King Henry V, Act 4, scene 3

posted 02-27-2008 06:46 PM            

Then there's the post jail/prison thing. It's mostly guys. If you serve your time, you walk out into a world where you can't rent an apartment in a decent part of town, nor can you get a job that isn't somehow subsidized by the gummint or an accepting biz owner who's overcome the odds himself. Ex-jailbirds are doomed.

OTOH, the idiotic things we did when young, were brushed aside as juvenile behavior. Today, a DUI teen has a permanent record which is easily unearthed on the I'net. It's hell getting into the military -- which is accused of lowering its standards. They're only honing to the standards of the pre-uber judgement days. How many of the folx who reject our jail birds and juvenile offendors has lead a perfect life? I certaintly haven't.

I rail against the entitlement mentality. At the same time, those who've been raised (are we into the 4th generation -- I think so) are beaten back when they attempt to succeed.

Damn, I don't know what to do. And I'm discouraged that those of you in high PhD areas (that includes Austin) aren't able to do much more than get on a waiting list. As the population ages (actually the boomers are about to take over), why do we refuse to embrace their practical and philosophical skills?

Looking forward to reading "Scratch Beginnings." I put down Ehrenreich's books w/ in a chapter, deeming them a high sustained whine.

posted 02-29-2008 11:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by annef:
Whoops, we're missing something here. Male v female....

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