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 Debunkers
 Academia and Medicine
 Mental illness: From stigma to fad?
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| Author | Topic: Mental illness: From stigma to fad? |
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KGB Moderator |
posted 03-28-2008 02:39 PM
  
The New York Sun asks.
quote: IP: Logged |
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annef Moderator |
posted 03-28-2008 04:46 PM
I'm not sure abt your conclusion, KBG,, but there certainly a burgeoning number of 'botique' drugs -- for sleeplessness, depression, etc. Bi polar is different. IME, it really must be medicated if only to ameliorate manic periods. My question is far more general. Are we so unwilling to tolerate 'crazy aunts and muttering grand uncles' that we deem any 'unacceptable' behavior and illness? It's a zero-tolerance thing is some respects. Certainly there are overmedicated portions of the population. It's far more efficacious for a doc to breeze thru an appt, write a scrip and wave the patient out the door. HBP and high cholesterol and diabetes worry me. As the threshold for this conditions has been lowered, conventional wisdom would seem to promote Meds For All. We have 'epidemics' and 'addictions' that are off the wall. I am surprised that the diagnosis for bi-polar disorder has gone up so dramatically. My personal guess is that it's an EZ way to deal with fractious patients. But man, these drugs are potent and not to be prescribed without thorough, informed examinations. Would a doc chime in here? Are we witnessing a demand for brand name drugs as a result of ubiquitous advertising? Are we in some new 'Vally of The Dolls?" Are medicos reaching for their scrip pads rather than the Stedman's? Anne
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10SNE1 Moderator |
posted 03-28-2008 05:11 PM
quote: Yes, we are seeing an epidemic of addictions. And we seem to be addicted to epidemics. IP: Logged |
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setnahkt Member |
posted 03-28-2008 05:57 PM
I dunno. I "feel better" since I started antidepressants, but I don't feel a lot better. And maybe it's just the attitudinal change of doing something, or placebo effect, or who knows what. I might possibly get the same result from a witch doctor. IP: Logged |
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Sam Mc Kee Member |
posted 03-28-2008 08:26 PM
The rampant abuse of the word "addiction" has always bothered me. Once upon a time, addiction was a medical term with a specific meaning. Now it's what we call any behavior when either: -we wish to demonize that activity because we don't enjoy it ourselves and don't think others should be allowed to enjoy it, or -we engage in that behavior ourselves, know that it's wrong and/or stupid, but don't want to acknowledge personal responsibility for our own actions and decisions. And yes, various questionable diagnoses are definitely fads. The number of vague "learning disabilities" that crop up whenever a parent in an affluent school district discovers that his kid isn't doing well is a classic example. (Many school disctricts also suddenly discover that large numbers of students belong in special ed when they figure out that special ed students' standardized test scores are not figured in with the school's average.) IP: Logged |
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Victor Member |
posted 03-29-2008 09:51 AM
quote: I am reminded of Charles Darwin in his later years. He was a recluse who wouldn't leave home without a close relative accompanying him. For someone who had traveled the world in his youth, this would definitely be evidence of some illness. Would medication be appropriate if it allowed him to travel more frequently and without the need for a companion? [This message has been edited by Victor (edited 03-29-2008).] IP: Logged |
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Sam Mc Kee Member |
posted 03-29-2008 11:24 AM
Perhaps, but that strikes me as a case where there's a fine line between crazy and eccentric. If voluntary medication can help somebody like that, great. (I don't particularly care if it's an illness or not--if technology can help someone to live his life more like the way he wants, that's great.) IP: Logged |
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entropy Member |
posted 03-29-2008 12:35 PM
quote: I plead ignorance. I have not prescribed or taken anti depressants thought I might try some if I had a doctor. Most of what I know about this subject I have learned on debunkers. It is true that I was very interested in psychiatric diagnosis in the distant past and once enjoyed writers such as Szasz, Laing and Samual Shem ( who I note will soon publish a new novel -The Spirit of the Place)) IP: Logged |
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setnahkt Member |
posted 03-29-2008 12:51 PM
quote: Me too, and I'd comment more except I have to get to my book dealer and buy some more before I get the shakes. IP: Logged |
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KGB Moderator |
posted 03-29-2008 02:07 PM
quote: Back on the topic, I took antidepressants briefly towards the end of graduate school, but I think that a case can be made that my life was objectively miserable and being deeply unhappy was a perfectly normal response. I don't think the antidepressants were anything more than a placebo; the diagnosis of mild depression that went along with them was basically permission to go ahead and feel unhappy, which paradoxically made me feel better. It could not have hurt that I had a psychologist sympathetically listening to me complain about life on a regular basis. Marriage pretty much cured the "depression." Married life can be miserable at times, but for reasons I don't fully understand, my response during the miserable episodes isn't to get feeling blue. Maybe it's because I get feeling irritated instead. And then there are the good times. Don't know what advice to offer you, Set. I met my wife at church. There are secular volunteer organizations that might have the same effect. Is there some reasonably worthy cause you'd be willing to put some volunteer hours into where you might meet single chicks with similar views on what constitutes worthy causes? IP: Logged |
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annef Moderator |
posted 03-29-2008 03:36 PM
[KGB] makes an interesting observation. The end of something -- graduation, a new child or one who reaches escape velocity from home, a bad patch in a marriage... can be a real downer. However these are 'situational' responses. For most of us time is the best and most effective healer simply because you can get by feeling (next time you're p.o.'d concentrate on the feeling. If it lasts more than 15 minutes I'd be surprised. It seems to me that 'feeling good' is almost a cult mentality -- a new entitlement wherein someone/something must to be to blame, thus some outside force will effectuate a 'cure.' We can certainly pursue happiness but there's no guarantee that we will achieve it. With bi-polar problems, the medicine of choice is the one that best keeps you from being manic. On it's face, this seems upside down because when you're manic you DO things, GO places, have an ardent INTEREST even fascination with activities and other people. Mania sure got me into some dicey situations.Still I was happy and wildly engaged. Meds? You don't want to be between my meds in the morning or at night. Back in the 60s there was a short era of mindlessly bored housewives who became truly addicted to Valium and the like. Much like today's hyperactivity religion. Anne IP: Logged |
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jessho Member |
posted 03-29-2008 04:59 PM
My wife's emotional disorder is definitely not something she can will away or control without medications. Believe me, when she goes off the deep end, the use of professional law enforcement may be necessary. She is out of control. So, she has what I consider an illness, but I believe there are quite a few people that are prescribed medications without any consideration of the necessary physical and mental evaluations required to make this determination.
quote: Personally, I think many people that need some time in therapy avoid so because of the stigma. From my experience, a therapist is a professional that recognizes thought and behavioral patterns that cause distress. Their job is to present these patterns to you and get you to change and progress. Most of "feeling good" is being content and comfortable. While medications can do the same, they may be a crutch for responsible thoughts and actions. IP: Logged |
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WattKid Member |
posted 03-29-2008 09:53 PM
quote: My wife was a pharmacy tech before she retired. She had one customer who started taking Wellbutrin as a smoking cessation aid, and he reacted so favorably to the anti-depressant effect that he decided that he had been suffering from depression. He had his doctor prescribe an anti-depressant full time and reported a major improvement in his mental outlook. IP: Logged |
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annef Moderator |
posted 03-29-2008 10:44 PM
Jessho, you and HWMBB are, I think, extraordinary fellows. The police/emergency rescue theme has occurred in our home as well. I believe there's another factor -- increased isolation from others. Psychologists/psychiatrists can provide the personal attention that is all too often missing from our lives. This begs the question, "How many of us meet with a few friends over coffee for an hour or so during the week?" That's friends, not colleagues. Maybe neighbors. Maybe people we've met at the hardware store. I don't. I'm a master of cut and run when it comes to conversation -- the grocery clerk, the receptionist at an office -- nothing long-term. I don't feel that long term friendships could've prevented my mind melt. It was going on from the get go. But for folx within the 'norm' (whatever that is), these sort of contacts often serve the same function as psychological counseling -- and over the long haul reveal that we all have essentially the same up/downs. This is comforting and can alleviate concerns about a personal problems... we all basically have the same ones at the end of the day. For some of us they reach the surreal stage (hallucinations are NOT fun, no matter what the aging Hippies say). You know, there are clusters of psychiatrist centro populations (with apologies to any member, I'm thinking of NYC, DC and San Fran). So perhaps the 'fad' label is an accurate one. It would seem natural for normal people to want to be normal... still, I consider 'normal' a cycle on my washing machine. It works, but isn't particularly interesting. Must be time to meet at Flo's Intergalactic Cafe. Anne IP: Logged |
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jessho Member |
posted 03-30-2008 02:50 PM
I think friends for sounding boards are more than necessary. The only problem: friendship, in many situations, is only cheerleading. Painful, and necessary, conversations are avoided. Instead of getting real advice, the "friend" tells the other what they think they want to hear. Another thing is selfless help. Sometimes helping another person is more than friendly advice. Help may require some efforts to find professional guidance (if necessary) and this may be a little more effort than some are willing to give. One thing I've found is there is a wealth of help in support groups. When similar situations exist, there is always experience and wisdom to be found. When you add the fact nobody has a dog in your hunt, you get some really good help. IP: Logged |
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10SNE1 Moderator |
posted 03-30-2008 04:24 PM
quote: For me that's "the" thing rather than "another" thing. I recently found a neighbor's horse limping badly, and removed a horrible manmade metal object from his hoof. The neighbor, upon being informed, yelled at me for "messing with my horse" - which didn't diminish the good feeling I had about myself in the least. Next best I;ve felt about myself recently was after seeing an elderly man slip and fall on ice - I u-turned across 3 traffic lanes and double yellow line, helped him up and gave him a ride home (he was ok, or at least insisted he was). Participating in a service club provides a pale shadow of the same feeling... IP: Logged |
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Sam Mc Kee Member |
posted 03-30-2008 05:00 PM
When I lived in New York I was once about to cross the street when a woman asked if I could help, saying she had just twisted her ankle and was nervous about crossing the street. Sadly, my first reaction was to look around for her accomplice--not an unreasonable thing to do, especially in NY in the Dinkins days. I obviously couldn't just say "no" to someone in need, so I thrust one hand into my pocket to get a deathgrip on my wallet and offered her my other arm. Sharing the world with other humans can be damn complicated, but yeah, it's sometimes very rewarding. IP: Logged |
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annef Moderator |
posted 03-30-2008 07:04 PM
Yuppers, what goes around comes around -- not necessarily in a recognizable form -- but surely in your ability to look yourself in the face in the mirror each morning. It's a matter of attitude... help someone wrestle a shopping cart out of a row of carts, reach something on a higher shelf for a shorter person (I'm usually the shorter person and've never been turned down when asking for assistance). I do think it's important to not be self-congratulatory. On the friend thing, there've been times in my life when I've had two or three close friends (don't really think it's possible to have more -- close ones). We argued about a lot of stuff and accused one another of being self-pitying, but the underlying theory was that we were all in it together and that plain good manners required at least listening to the other folks' opinions and facts. Facts were and are still the essential ingredient. Bar tabs were particularly high on dueling footnotes/statistics/studies nights. Back to the original question -- mental illness: from stigma to fad. There's currently 'parity' legislation slogging the US congress. This is going to be a tough one for insurance companies. There's plenty of actuarial data on physical maladies -- even on age/sex (think teen male drivers). With mental disorders the lines get fuzzy. You can't take it's temperature or x-ray it. How to you set coverage limits and co-payment schedules? Anne IP: Logged |
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KGB Moderator |
posted 03-31-2008 01:18 AM
quote: You nailed it. Mental illness is as real as other kinds of illness. Unfortunately, it's easier to game than most. IP: Logged |
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LaneH Member |
posted 03-31-2008 09:33 AM
quote: My wife is on wellbutrin for at such a low dose that BC/BS denied to pay for her 'scrip 'cause they don't pay for smoking cessation. Took a few days to get that one straightened out. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Frank2941 Member |
posted 03-31-2008 04:46 PM
Sam You said: quote: Where did you get that? Do you have a link? IP: Logged |
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KGB Moderator |
posted 03-31-2008 05:34 PM
quote: Slightly tangential, but I had a similar problem getting Avodart. It's unusual to prescribe it for prostate difficulty at age 44, but my urologist thought it was a good idea. The insurance company apparently thought this was a cover story for growing hair. I already had plenty, thank you. IP: Logged |
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Sam Mc Kee Member |
posted 03-31-2008 06:56 PM
quote: You could Google it fast enough. Just off the top of my head, some new "addictions": -gambling I think I could go on and on. Some folks think technology is an addiction, and they're not being flippant the way I speak of my chocolate addiction but are dead serious about it. I can't tell if this is serious or not, but I do know that a lot of people take it seriously. If you play a lot of WoW and neglect your responsibilities, it's not your fault--there's a convenient scapegoat. Or if you don't play WoW but someone you'd like to control does, there's something to demonize. Before the Internet age there was a similar phenomenon regarding television, which was deemed the root of all evil by some busy-bodies. I can't find a reference for this (any experts here?) but I read some years ago that when the printing press first became really widespread in Europe the Pope was all in a tizzy about how awful it was that people were starting to spend so much time absorbed in the fantasy world of reading instead of busying themselves with important real-world activities. They didn't have pop psychology terms back then, but I don't think the argument changed significantly from demonizing books to demonizing television to demonizing cell phones. I'd write more but my children want my attention, and I'm addicted to hugs. IP: Logged |
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annef Moderator |
posted 03-31-2008 08:08 PM
I think you're probably referring to a Pope's contention that reading about God was no substituting for experiencing Him/Her/It. Elders seem to be addicted to deploring the new travesties of youth. Music, in particular strikes me. Clothing, disrespect, shunning parents' values, general rebellion (can we spell teenager?). Hmmm. I'm addicted to cooking, writing, growing herbs, hanging out with dogs, playing the piano. Once or twice a month you'll find me drinking a real martini (gin, up, twist) on a local pub patio. Being an inveterate reader, I suppose I'm addicted to it... in any form, but preferably print. Terribly sorry. Hungry. Apparently am also addicted to food. If I eat to little I'm a mentally ill anorectic, if I eat too much I'm part of the obesity epidemic. I feel sure that a love of hugs and quiet or quite noisy affection will soon be deemed an illness. Anne IP: Logged |
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LaneH Member |
posted 04-01-2008 05:28 AM
quote: I checked out the testimonials on that site. As a player of WoW since its commercial inception (I didn't play the beta) and have gone through every type of guild from ultra-hardcore raiding to friends-and-family who gives a whet slap how you play (which is where I am now) the game is what it is, a game. I have a very addictive personality, by that, I mean I get focussed and don't let go, WoW can become a job - must do blah. It's a business in asia, the term chinese gold farmer (people who are paid to get stuff for virtual cash, which is then sold on e-bay for real cash) is a truth. But it is not a clinical addiction. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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setnahkt Member |
posted 04-01-2008 10:33 AM
"Addiction" may make a certain amount of sense from an evolutionary standpoint. Things that are good for us should feel good, and bad for us feel bad; that's simple enough. That brain chemistry can be short-circuited, though, by plants that can use it to their advantage - how many opium poppies would there be in the world if you couldn't make heroin out of them? It seems like we can do some internal short-cicuiting as well. Sex, for example, is supposed to be fun - otherwise, no one would ever do it and we would go extinct. Therefore, sex releases various brain chemicals that make us feel good. There's no particular reason why that chemistry can't be co-opted by something else; in fact, many addicts describe whatever it is they are addicted to as "better than sex". I'm not sure that for some addicts this isn't literally true; there's no reason to believe it can't be. It might be possible, using things like PET scans, to tell if someone is actually addicted to something. I do agree that the concept is easily overused; clearly there are some people who use "addiction" as an excuse to gain sympathy and support. Liek everything else there's probably a continuum from those who are helplessly tied to whatever they are addicted to, all the way to cynical opportunists taking advantage of the trendiness of it all. IP: Logged |
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KGB Moderator |
posted 04-01-2008 11:30 AM
quote: Yeah, I know the feeling. When I get my brain wrapped around something, it can be almost physically painful to have my concentration broken. This can be a problem in family life; I am grateful my wife has been as understanding as she has so far. (She understands I have quirks.) IP: Logged |
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