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![]() Tierney takes on Rachel Carson
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| Author | Topic: Tierney takes on Rachel Carson |
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KGB Moderator |
In the pages of the New York Times, no less.
quote: If kids got out of high school having learned only one thing, perhaps that one thing should be that being eloquent is not the same as being right. IP: Logged |
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El Buggo Member |
Ah, there's the rub. Being eloquent is more important than being right. Or being witty. Or being charismatic. Or being funny. Or being charming. Or being good looking. Or being a victim. All of those now are more important than being right. A guy that used to work around me adhered to the philosophy that perception is reality. I am not so naive as to not understand what he's driving at, but I still steadfastly disagree. He's correct with respect to the public, for "they" are too lazy to root out the truth, but for those of us that aren't that lazy or employed to deliver some semblance of the truth, we need to strive to do just that, even if or especially if it means we have to struggle to change perception. Politicians, to me, are those most charged with the responsibility to present the actual facts, not merely ride popular opinion. On that point I do realize I am mostly delusional. I blame Roseanne Barr, for the most part, as the obvious starting point where being funny excused all of her other obvious and significant flaws. The lowest common denominator is not a place to aspire to. More on topic, less ranting, my alma mater has an official Department of Environmental Science now associated with the Biology Department. Almost without fail, they crank out ill-informed graduates that have a strong grounding in scientific mythology and little training in reality or the functioning of the biological world. They believe a Utopian version of nature does exist, if only because they close their eyes watching predatory animals in nature. Never mind the subtler nuances of things smaller than mammals. The Irish potato famine is a myth. Oh wait, I'm ranting again. Well, here then, I'll lay it out. We're headed back towards the dark ages what with mysticism and snake oils pervading the day. We are on the verge of losing contact with the knowledge gained over the last hundred years, simply because people don't want to let reality affection their perception. The angry face is not for you KGB, nor for Tierney or Baldwin. It's for the fact that article will be dismissed by large proportions of the public that have had lies foisted upon them by self-aggrandizing and self-supporting activist groups. Ptui. (man, I need more sleep on Sunday nights) [This message has been edited by El Buggo (edited 06-11-2007).] IP: Logged |
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Sprengtporten Member |
quote: That never happened and never will because of the fact that "bad news is the good news". Bad news by default make the headlines and good news by default are less shaking. IP: Logged |
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KGB Moderator |
Another "Rachel Carson, may she roast in hell" article.
quote: I don't doubt DDT is useful, but this seems a bit strong. Especially after hearing our own Bugman address the limitations of DDT in past posts. Maybe Rachel Carson is just running laps in Purgatory? IP: Logged |
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gorgas Member |
While I may be accused of nitpicking, I would contend that many such articles, especially the latter, are so imprecise as to be untruthful. For example, DDT is not the most effective "anti-malarial" that ever existed, it was just one particular tool that was key to carrying out a very comprehensive integrated control strategy. (BTW, an "anti-malarial' is a drug like chlorine, quinine or mefloquine, not an insecticide, which targets the vector. I should think any gub'mint "health minister" worth a steaming load of dung would know this; herein lies one reason why malaria is still a problem in parts of the world) DDT alone never eradicated malaria anywhere, its use merely reduced immediate transmission as one facet of this total strategy. The failure of these programs was not because of any DDT ban, but because many of the host countries never had the resolve to follow through once transmission had been initially reduced. As I mentioned in another post, the strategy for approaching malaria eradication is a 4-phase one: The low cost of DDT can also cut both ways; any product that is very cheap is also very likely to be overused, often to the point that it is no longer saving any money, because so much product is being wasted. There currently is a very cost-effective larvicide on the market now which works at dosages so low that it is very cheap to use at label rates; skeptical technicians often apply "just a little more" for good measure, and next thing you know, you are using 3-4 times as what is needed and it is no longer cost effective. With something like DDT, this is even worse, because overapplication will hasten selection of resistance. Anyway, as I have said before, I support the limited use of DDT as an IRS application for Anopheline control. However, its use must be interspersed with other insecticides of different modes of action to minimize resistance selection, and susceptibility testing of Anophelines must be done periodically to detect any early evidence of resistance in vector populations. Articles like these are so far removed from any factual reality it is just scary. The DDT counter-mythology has become just as truth-challenged as the DDT myths they think they are debunking. IP: Logged |
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El Buggo Member |
I like DDT for assisting with malaria transmission control, make no mistake about that. But it's not a magic bullet. I can say a lot of what gorgas has said in different ways, but there's not much point. I might offer some information up in a slightly different fashion though, but I want to digest it more. I am interested in asking questions about Sri Lanka though and will formulate my thoughts on those in time, dragging this topic sidewise. Also in digression, gorgas what is the cost effective larvacide you speak of? IP: Logged |
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gorgas Member |
quote: I hope the Sri Lanka example is the correct one, I dredge up stuff from memory too often, and it might be harder for me to document, at least online. Hope I am not inadvertantly misinforming about that, as I have just finished skewering others. However, my intent is not one of deception; I wonder about the ones who generate the "DDT will save us" articles like these. As for the larvicide of which I write, I am speaking of a product whose trade name is "Agnigue". It is very similar to a product called "AROSURF" that was produced in from the mid-1970's until about 1989. ANother highly effective larvicide was DURSBAN 10 CR (controlled release). This consisted of a plastic granule, about the size and appearance of a grain of rice. Used as a larvicide, it would give control for a long period of time at very low rates; so low that applicators were very skeptical of its claims. In certain kinds of habitats, like environmentally sensitive woodland pools, a pinch of granules might give virtual season long control. The granules would also remain potent between cycles of drying and flooding. They could even be used to pretreat some kinds of sites. However, it was very expensive, and the claims of efficacy were so astounding, that many MAD's didn't take to it until the more progressive operators conducted field trials. But Dow got impatient at the slow acceptance, and pulled the product before it really had been given a chance. I seriously think this product might have very widely accepted had it been around a couple more years. But I also wonder if its long residual activity might have selected for resistance pretty quickly. This would have been especially problematic, because at that time (early1980's), our major adulticides were also OP's. (Malathion, Fenthion, Dursban) OP cross-resistance would have been a very bad thing then. On another tangent, Wetting agents like Agnique have also been used as adjuvants to things like BTi and Methprene, b/c they spread very rapidly. This could give a good double-whammy to any mossie larvae. IP: Logged |
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El Buggo Member |
I expect Sri Lanka is the right example, but Sri Lanka always twigs my mind when discussing DDT. The reason for that is most people that are anti-DDT tend to always ramble on about examples where it didn't work in Sri Lanka, but as you've pointed out, the issue is more related to follow through after quasi-eradication efforts. But there was also DDT resistance in Sri Lanka, but that's a reflection of behaviour of the species of vector more so than anything, so it doesn't directly translate over to sub-Saharan African examples of DDT and why they shouldn't use it. Different vector, different behaviour, amongst other factors. I was not familiar with the larvicide you mentioned, so thank you very much for the information. Dursban was (and may, I'm not privy to what is actually used and in what amounts) used quite regularly here and may have been the CR formulation, though in recent years it wouldn't have been. The previous entomologist responsible for this area used it about 80% of the time, Bti about 20% of the time but played it up like the converse was happening. The Bti just doesn't last as long so it requires more frequent applications which means more money (plus Bti is more expensive per unit of treatment than Dursban is in the first place). The new guy came in full bore in a horrible year trying to manage with only Bti and methoprene (which was registered up here only that year) and he was a miserable failure as was his program. He's a very 'green' thinker, but thankfully he's also pragmatic, especially after the media and public kicked his backside around for a couple of months. They are still currently larviciding with mostly methoprene or Bti and in years when it's not wet, it's relatively successful. But this year it's wet again, very wet. We live in the flattest place on earth, so drainage remediation is out. The soils are very heavy clay based, so regular drainage is slow. The soil is now saturated again (so much for the drought the climate change folk were predicting) so we've got just a ton of Aedes vexans rocking and rolling to the point where the dude is close to adulticiding again. Tee-hee. I like him, but for his insistance on suggesting dragonflies control mossies to the point where he's suggesting the public do their own releases. Aaaaaaaaargh. Never mind the whole different niche in the water column deal, the more important point is that there are no native species of DF commercially available up here, so people are ordering them online from places like Alabama and the like. Can you say invasive species potential? I knew you could. Ok, it's more a displacement of native species potential, but really, it's the same thing. IP: Logged |
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entropy Member |
DDP has been obsessed with DDT. But I don't see anything new on this year's agenda. http://www.ddponline.org/ddt.htm IP: Logged |
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