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Drakens Member	posted 02-05-2008 08:17 AM I wasn't sure what forum this belonged in, I was thinking it might be polycon. Anyway, Phillipines to ban incandescent light bulbs. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/ap_on_re_as/philippines_bulb_ban;_ylt=Ajq2LJ0PgGOXbrbgx8ko7ABvaA8F So when are we going to see this crap here? I guess I'll have to swap out some of my odd sized incandescent fixtures, or stock up on lots of bulbs. It sure wouldn't save me money short term. Anyone use those new LED lightbulbs? I've seen some advertised that are supposed to fit in a standard socket. IP: Logged
Sam Mc Kee Member	posted 02-05-2008 08:47 AM quote: Originally posted by Drakens: So when are we going to see this crap here? Already done. Comrade McCain voted in favor of banning incandescant lightbulbs in favor of CFLs. I believe the law goes fully into effect in 2012. I'm still holding out hope for a sudden fit of sanity and consequent repeal of this lunacy, but I'm hoarding incandescants nonetheless. IP: Logged
setnahkt Member	posted 02-05-2008 11:07 AM I believe incandescents are not technically banned, but there's an efficiency requirement in 2012 law that only CFLs or LEDs can meet. IP: Logged
Sam Mc Kee Member	posted 02-05-2008 01:25 PM I fail to see the difference. IP: Logged
John LeBlanc Member	posted 02-05-2008 02:58 PM I think I'll start marketing them as "low-power space heaters". ------------------ "Deer aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is what am I going to eat next, who am I going to f*** and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the French." - Ted Nugent IP: Logged
setnahkt Member	posted 02-05-2008 03:13 PM quote: Originally posted by Sam Mc Kee: I fail to see the difference. It means that the Government can say, "Well, we never actually banned incandescent bulbs. It's just that greedy corporations refused to make efficent ones". It's vaguely similar to auto emissions laws; a lot of people think the EPA requires emissions tests and so on. IP: Logged
LaneH Member	posted 02-05-2008 04:12 PM I've stated this elsewhere; I HATE CFLs, the spectrum is hideous. And the emitted light is pathetic High intensity LEDs have their place, but again, the spectrum is off. ------------------ lane h. can be reached at laneman@erols.com "Never let your mind remain so open that your brain falls out." IP: Logged
10SNE1 Moderator	posted 02-05-2008 08:28 PM quote: Originally posted by LaneH: I've stated this elsewhere; I HATE CFLs, the spectrum is hideous. And the emitted light is pathetic High intensity LEDs have their place, but again, the spectrum is off. I've been using a little 9-led flashlight for a while now... it's pretty amazing, but as Lane points out it gives off a sickly sort of light. I was wondering why they don't include a red(dish) led or two in the array, to shift the spectrum a bit to the left. Probably a dumb question, but I'm long since over any embarrassment from making a fool of myself around here. IP: Logged
annef Moderator	posted 02-05-2008 10:38 PM Oh, 10, you hardly embarrass yourself here. I always find your posts informative. HWMBB (utterly and truly B) rescued me from .pdf meltdown and deleted several functions, incl volume. He spent an hour trying (in vain) to resurrecti it. I rebooted and it somehow reappeared. Am currently enjoying Pat Metheny (music purists may thump me -- but I admit that keeping up w/ his group on my piano is a complex and challenging effort). Neither of us understands what happened. I loathe computers and he's an IT pro. IT pros don't generally deign to bother w/ Windoze. I have no idea what happened. Neither does he. Needless to say, we have a confusing relationship -- including 'pute stuff. Apparently ignorance (on my part) often overcomes his expertise. He is wonderfully gracious... and politely confused. Am currently enjoying complex audio and he's retreated from fireplace to lick his wounds. There is no rational explanation. I can only hope that you enjoy the same comfort in your relationships that we do. This guy has put up with more than you can imagine. Fondly, Anne IP: Logged
Greg F Member	posted 02-06-2008 12:55 PM I have a flashlight that has 10 white, 5 green, and a laser LED. The switch cycles through green only, white and green, laser, and off. All the white LED's I have seen seem to have a blue tint to them. The green on with the white seems to help. Green only is great at night. The laser is good for getting the golden retriever to exercise. Picked it up for $20 at True Value. It also has a compass that is marginally useful. IP: Logged
setnahkt Member	posted 02-06-2008 02:32 PM When gaslight came in, were there complaints that it was inferior to candlelight? I've read accounts of people being convinced that the "rays" of electricity from the first electric light bulbs were going to harm them - sort of like cell phone towers. It never changes, I suppose. IP: Logged
LaneH Member	posted 02-06-2008 03:02 PM I suppose once we no longer have incandescent's, our brain will adapt to the new spectrum. Incandescent bulbs put out a very red light, but we're used to it and our brain adapts. Look at a photo taken without a flash inside with incandescent lighting. Very red-shifted. ------------------ lane h. can be reached at laneman@erols.com "Never let your mind remain so open that your brain falls out." IP: Logged
Frank2941 Member	posted 02-06-2008 03:06 PM quote: I HATE CFLs, the spectrum is hideous. And the emitted light is pathetic. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, of course, but most of us without pre-conceived ideas recognize that the CFL's (just as the older fluorescent lamps) do not all put out the same frequency of light and, if the proper ones are selected (eg. "soft white"), are much like incandescent lamps. Those who have not observed late model CFL's might check out the picture at Wikipedia for a comparison. I think that there are a lot more important things to worry about than the slight shade difference between late model CFL's and incandescent lamps. [This message has been edited by Frank2941 (edited 02-06-2008).] IP: Logged
LaneH Member	posted 02-06-2008 04:13 PM I have no 'pre-conceived notions' -- I have 'late-model' CFLs in my house. I don't like them. Additionally, the life-span is relevant only for CFLs that are left on for extended periods of time. I also don't like the total lumens that they put out. And the pictures on wikipedia bear no relation to anything. Pretty much every monitor will display those differently, therefore, they are irrelevant. Additionally, emitted light from phosphors is different than either a CRT or an LED. The soft white bulbs are too blue. As I noted above, our brain is tuned to a red spectrum that we re-align through adaptation/exposure to look yellow/more like natural light. Over time, that adaptation will probably shift. ------------------ lane h. can be reached at laneman@erols.com "Never let your mind remain so open that your brain falls out." IP: Logged
KGB Moderator	posted 02-06-2008 04:20 PM I would like to like CFLs. I have installed a number in my home. I have been disappointed. I had a bit of a scare a little while back. I thought I had jaundice, a real possibility given the large doses of ibuprofen I had been taking. My skin had a distinctly sickly yellow appearance in the bathroom mirror. Turns out it was the new CFLs I had installed. When I first turn them on, they produce a weak sickly yellow light. Over the course of a minute or so, they come to full luminosity and the sickly yellow light isn't so bad. But I'm stil having a hard time getting used to the latency period. All this is irrelevant. If CFLs did in fact give a pleasing spectrum at full brightness from the moment they were turned on, while saving loads of energy, it would still irritate me to have the government mandate their use. That they are being mandated when they are not demonstrably superior, and decidedly worse for some applications, simply infuriates me. IP: Logged
SPQR Moderator	posted 02-06-2008 06:18 PM My kitchen has four floodlight fixtures in the ceiling that had 75 watt floods in each. To attempt to reduce my electricity bill, I replaced three of the four floods with CFL's that nominally put out the same lumens. The illumination level was cut more than in half and while I did notice a drop in the electricity bill - the effect will be short lived as I replace some of the CFL's again with incandescent floods. IP: Logged
setnahkt Member	posted 02-06-2008 06:23 PM Every bulb in my house - except for the ones in the refrigerator, oven, etc. - is a CFL. I suppose I'm used to it. I replaced incandescents as they wore out. I note that they have a shorter than advertised life in enclosed fixtures, but seem to do quite well otherwise; the oldest was installed in 1993. IP: Logged
Frank2941 Member	posted 02-06-2008 06:30 PM quote: When I first turn them on, they produce a weak sickly yellow light. Over the course of a minute or so, they come to full luminosity and the sickly yellow light isn't so bad. I just tried turning on some CFL's and looking for the sickly yellow light. I did observe some yellowishness that went away in 30 to 60 seconds or so. Unless the ones that others are using have a lot more yellow than mine are, I really cannot see how it is more than the most minor of issues (jaundice???-it would never make me think of that). But, de gustibus non est disputandem. IP: Logged
El Buggo Member	posted 02-06-2008 10:47 PM I'm no fan of them. And the longevity claims are pretty iffy based on my relatively short experience. We moved into a brand new house 20 months ago. In that time I've replaced 5 incandescent bulbs and 3 of the CFLs I replaced them with. Yup, the CFLs burned out faster than some of the incans. Sure, small sample size. I'm with Lane on this one with respect to the quality of light, it is different. On the bright side, it seems we've finally had some brighter CFLs hit the market up north and they actually provide adequate light, just in a different spectrum. Too bright in the case of one bulb. As an interesting consequence of weather, I'd question mandating all CFLs in cold climates. It's been nasty cold of late (lows in the -30/40 C range without wind chill) and the CFLs we have outside do not like it much at all. They usually come on, but not always and when they do, it seems to be temperature dependant and there can be a 20-25 minute lag before they show any light. Cool, but weird and rather useless. In fixing up the basement I want to install flush mount lights but didn't want to end up swapping out incans for CFLs when Canada's ban in 2012 takes effect. It looks like I'm going with PAR20 halogens because they seem to work well with dimmers and as such will not be banned. They're 50W bulbs and put out a decent white quality of light. There are CFL bulbs for use in flush mount lights, but they look dumb to me. IP: Logged
Jeff Norman Moderator	posted 02-06-2008 11:34 PM This might have some relevance... CFL as fire hazard. quote: I have come across your writings recently and would like to share a picture (see below) and comment regarding Pur Lite spirals. I was taking my dog for a walk and noticed the lights in the garage flickering. Upon entering the garage I could smell something electrical burning. The bulb in the garage door opener was actually smouldering and glowing. You can see the result in the picture I have attached. I do not know if this is specific to the make or if the reports are just junk heresay. IP: Logged
Frank2941 Member	posted 02-06-2008 11:52 PM quote: There are CFL bulbs for use in flush mount lights, but they look dumb to me. I have seen the CFL's for flush mount at stores, but see no reason for them. I use the regular CFL's for my flush mount lights with no problem. IP: Logged
John LeBlanc Member	posted 02-07-2008 07:02 AM What most politicians fail to take into account, and most of the marketing types obfuscate, is the fact that in most of this continent for a large part of the year, when when it's dark it's also cold. I've got CFLs in my house and noticed that while I had noticeable energy savings in the summer, during the winter the savings on lighting costs were offset by the increase in heating costs. A dozen incandescent bulbs will throw off as much heat as a portable space heater. ------------------ "Deer aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is what am I going to eat next, who am I going to f*** and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the French." - Ted Nugent IP: Logged
Frank2941 Member	posted 02-07-2008 11:21 AM Article in today's "Slate." IP: Logged
10SNE1 Moderator	posted 02-07-2008 11:46 AM quote: Originally posted by John LeBlanc: What most politicians fail to take into account, and most of the marketing types obfuscate, is the fact that in most of this continent for a large part of the year, when when it's dark it's also cold. I've got CFLs in my house and noticed that while I had noticeable energy savings in the summer, during the winter the savings on lighting costs were offset by the increase in heating costs. A dozen incandescent bulbs will throw off as much heat as a portable space heater. Good point. "Waste heat" is one reason I have not gone to on-demand water heating. Our water heater and boiler are in the un-heated garage. It is well insulated, but there are exposed hot water pipes. In the summer, I cover them with those foam tubes, but in the winter I take them off, which allows the garage to maintain temps in the 40s. Keeps the whole mess from freezing, and makes getting in the vehicles a less-than-excruciating experience. IP: Logged
barisax Member	posted 02-07-2008 03:42 PM quote: Originally posted by El Buggo: As an interesting consequence of weather, I'd question mandating all CFLs in cold climates. It's been nasty cold of late (lows in the -30/40 C range without wind chill) and the CFLs we have outside do not like it much at all. They usually come on, but not always and when they do, it seems to be temperature dependant and there can be a 20-25 minute lag before they show any light. Cool, but weird and rather useless. Ditto on your cold weather observations. I've used them outdoors (as porch lights), and in cold weather they flicker for a long time before coming on, if at all. They do come in handy when used in hard to reach spots that require a tall ladder. Even if it only lasts twice as long, it still saves some of hassle and danger of replacing them. I've also noticed that some people have a hard time affording $0.25 light bulbs. They tend to vanish from the basements and halls of multifamily dwellings. I too, will begin stockpiling incandescents. IP: Logged
Sam Mc Kee Member	posted 02-07-2008 04:31 PM http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Zjk2N2VjN2IwMDYxYTkzYWZlMjNjMWRmNjAxZmVjNGI= IP: Logged
KGB Moderator	posted 02-07-2008 04:47 PM I quite like the sunlight bulbs ... for my fish tank. IP: Logged

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