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 Post subject: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Do people actually take their advice on groceries?


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 12:46 am 
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Some do, yes. But this is nothing new for Consumer Reports. If memory serves correctly, they've been in league with the Environmental Working Group for quite some time. I recall years ago (toxdoc and nightman{?} were around) they even created they're own measure of toxicity. It was complete crap of course with no actual scientific merit, but the general public had not a clue.

EWG itself routinely ignores the safety factors involved in pesticide usage (1000x the NOAEL since FQPA came into effect) so it's not big deal other than the fact that people clamor for Whole Foods (whole fools if you ask me) but hey, we get what we ask for. Bed bug insecticides too toxic, ban 'em. Wait, what? We've got a bed bug outbreak? How can that be? :roll:

I don't trust much from CR anymore anyway, in part because of the pesticide B.S. but also the faked SUV rollover crap. If they can't have integrity in the face of that, why on earth wouldn't they take kickbacks from Sony or Westinghouse or Samsung or whoever needs ratings.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 12:56 am 
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It's hard to know who has integrity. I am into the 27th year of a 20-year asphalt shingle roof; I have bits of shingle on my lawn after every rain shower. Obviously I need a new roof. With a daughter in college and two sick sons, money is tight, so it would be nice to avoid the estimated $12,700 to replace the roof.

Of course, I'm going to just cough up the money and do what has to be done. But I was flirting briefly with coating the shingles with a roof coating, to try to get a few more years out of the roof. Some manufacturers claim their coatings are good for up to 50 years. I'm embarrassed how long it took to convince myself, from research online, that this was a really bad idea.

There was some very sober, reasonable-sounding objections to using roof coatings. From manufacturers of conventional roofing, though, so Of Course They'll Say That. But the folks pushing the coatings sent up so many red flags that it became pretty clear which group was running the scam.

I think it was the home inspector site that made it crystal clear, though. No obvious conflict of interest.

Consumer Reports used to be that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 6:47 am 
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Since you bring it up, what is the problem with roof coating? I ask because I'm in the same situation. I even have one or two occasional leaks (depending on the force and direction of the rain). I know it is time but was considering getting up there with a spray can of rubber and having at it in just the right places.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:32 am 
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Robert Espy wrote:
Since you bring it up, what is the problem with roof coating? I ask because I'm in the same situation. I even have one or two occasional leaks (depending on the force and direction of the rain). I know it is time but was considering getting up there with a spray can of rubber and having at it in just the right places.


Having at it in just the right places may be okay as a stopgap. But the stuff can rapidly ruin whatever shingle you have left, by shrinking and pulling the shingles up, and it can easily trap moisture under the roof and rot out your sheathing and joists. That will double the eventual cost of replace the roof right there.

And there's not a lot of evidence it actually does any of the things claimed for it. Even its proponents are hesitant to push it for a truly worn-out roof.

Important exception: Such coatings are accepted and standard practice for flat roofs and certain kinds of commercial roofs, both of which are designed for it. Not asphalt shingle on a pitched roof.

The certified home inspector site had a fellow asking about roof coatings, and the inspectors were unanimous in their scorn for "roofs in a bucket." Most said that they'd certify such a roof for not more than a year or two. Same for the roofers site, though you might argue that conventional roofers had a vested interest. But it soon became clear that the fellow at the roofers site was a shill for the industry, a huge red flag. Possibly also the fellow at the certified roofer site, whose signature line had a rather odd feel (for a certified home inspector) of lawyer advertising: "I'll fight hard for you!" -- When did that become a CHI's job? When you decided to get your insurance company involved in paying for your worn-out roof?


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:20 am 
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Location: South Carolina
Must be roof season. Or, long since it should have been. Had roofers come out week, week and a half ago, was supposed to have their boss come out too but he never called back, so went ahead and called the insurance (hail and windstorm damage on an old roof.) Then called the roofer back; Chick went to get our proposal, and suddenly Owner was on the line saying he needed to come out and check to see if we need more than the two sheets of plyboard they'd allowed in the proposal. So, gave him the name of the insurance checker, and am waiting. Owner's supposed to call on Monday (a holiday, so, I guess, bump everything back a day) and schedule a second visit Monday or Tuesday to look at the inside of the roof.

KGB, either you have a crazy huge, steep roof (possible), or your roof's in worse shape than ours (only minimally possible) since we've lived here ten years and done nothing to that shingled money-hole. Like you, we've had shingles in the yard after storms, and the last-born has reported leakage upstairs. It's got to be done, or there will be rot, and the whole roof will collapse, and we'll look like an abandoned South Dakota farmhouse. (Oh, and we need gutters. Badly.)

With the husband wanting to avoid all of this, I was pushing for at least a patch job up there. Glad we didn't know about spray-on roofs, or I might have pushed for that, just out of desperation to get something done. Next up - vinyl siding to get rid of the peeling and spongy wood siding. I swear, sometimes, my ideal house would have a slate roof, concrete siding, and be covered with dirt so we look like a giant hobbit hole.

I don't know about CHIs, but the roofer says he'll talk to the insurance for us if there's a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Vitugglan wrote:
KGB, either you have a crazy huge, steep roof (possible), or your roof's in worse shape than ours (only minimally possible) since we've lived here ten years and done nothing to that shingled money-hole. Like you, we've had shingles in the yard after storms, and the last-born has reported leakage upstairs. It's got to be done, or there will be rot, and the whole roof will collapse, and we'll look like an abandoned South Dakota farmhouse. (Oh, and we need gutters. Badly.)


Both. The roof is quite steep, and the shingles on the south-facing slopes are to the point where the fiberglass backing is showing on many of the shingles. Plus I'm finding myself scooping fistfulls of ceramic granules out of the storm gutters whenever I'm up there.

My wife is an honorary Scotswoman. But when I suggested having a CHI come look over the roof, just to be sure we really need to replace it now, she looked at me like I was off my nut and said "Of course we need a new roof." So she's accepted that we have to spend the money.

Incidentally, and in the category of "Ph.D.s are professional idiots" stories: My wife turned on the sprinkler system this morning, we heard the usual very mild water hammer (I know, I should do something about that) and suddenly there was a sound of running water right behind the refrigerator. The thing is heavy and awkward to move, so I just stood and waited. No water came out on the kitchen floor. Well, shucks and other comments. Went into the crawl space. Sure enough, it was raining in there under the refrigerator. Obviously the pipe in the wall behind the refrigerator that feeds the ice maker had busted and my wall was slowly filling with water. I figured it couldn't be the little feed coil from the wall outlet to the refrigerator, which is a straightforward homeowner fix, because the water was going in the crawl space instead of the kitchen.

There was no shutoff valve in the crawl space closer than the main line. I turned off all our water and called the plumber.

A few minutes later, I started hearing steady dripping behind the refrigerator. Opened the kitchen tap; yup, a very small stream. I had not entirely shut off the main line. So now, with a plumber already halfway here from Santa Fe (30 minutes away), I decided maybe I ought to go ahead and pull out the refrigerator and see what gave.

Turns out the break was not inside my wall after all. It was the filter cartridge, which is into the 12th year of its 1-year lifetime. Yes, I am a Scotsman, not of the honorary kind. I am not prone to profanity, but I was nearly biting my tongue in half, I was so mad at myself.

Turned off the spigot at the wall connection. Turned on the main. The water, he no coming out anywhere he should not. (It was a relief to have running water again.)

So why was the water dripping into the crawl space and not over our kitchen floor? Previous owners laid tile on top of the old linoleum, but did not feel like pulling out the cabinets first, so the tile only goes to the base of the cabinets. The water was finding its way beneath the tiles and from there to the crawl space.

Plumber arrives. Looks at the situation and soberly confirms my diagnosis. Doesn't carry our brand of filter cartridge; that's normally something home owners do themselves. Charges us $104 for the travel, which I can't say is unfair on a Sunday morning from Santa Fe when he had no other calls here.

I am a chump. SWMBO is not pleased, but her relief that we aren't having the wall torn open to replace a pipe at the cost of large $$ has her enough relieved that she is not as mad at me as I might fear.

Still. I am a chump.


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:13 pm 
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Posts: 305
Location: Tejas
A spray would just accelerate your roof going bad. I have done some. If your shingles are crumbling then only the fiberglass that is not both heat and UV damaged is holding it together around the nails. Getting on the roof and dragging the gun and hoses around, especially on a steep roof, would leave it worse off than if you leave it alone. Plus that stuff is heavy, and goes on thick. I did a couple of those jobs (probably not well) on some pole barns and even that was questionable value. And messy as all get out.

If you want to talk to someone, consider your insurance agent. Ask what the depreciation of your roof will be a year after you coat it.

I don't know what roofing costs now or what yours involves but $12.7k sounds really high for a roof. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Consumer Reports goes organic!
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Location: South Carolina
They're quoting us at just under $5,000, but we don't live in the same area, and I don't see where we'd have the same square foot of roof. My friend in SoDak (now in Nebraska, but this was about her roof in SD) paid around $10,000, because she had a huge roof.

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(BTW, I'm on Facebook, so friend me, already - since it's just us here, the name is Ceridwen Keeley.)


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